| Author |
Topic |
CCP Wrangler
 |
Posted - 2008.04.08 12:27:00 - [ 1]
Our very own Customer Service team has written a blog to inform you all about the Secure ETC Trading System and why it should be used. They+re also informing you of some things you might not have been aware of when it comes to Real Money Trading (RMT) like the fact the people you buy from will steal your credit card information if they get the chance, and ISK sellers are also behind macro mining and other things none of us wish to see in EVE. Pleas read Real Money Trading is bad, mkay? to get the full story! |
Clone 1
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:02:00 - [ 2]
Just like eon and eve-pirate adds on the EVE client login, this devblog should be advertised at logon too.
Ignorance is not an excuse, but it is a factor when people want to buy isk. Education is a good weapon against RMT.
|
SillyWaif
Galactic Kingdom |
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:13:00 - [ 3]
 Quote:
There are also the macro miners and mission runners, complex farmers and assorted rabble of this sort that causes general nuisance ...
I like running missions and I take offence if you compare/associate me(/our corp/other players who like that kind of gameplay) with Real Money Trading. It's annoying enough to see the spam for it in local, without this particular sentence in a Dev Blog... |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:20:00 - [ 4]
I'm somewhat offended to be called assorted rabble simply because I like doing the PvE content of EvE!
Surely this can't be what you mean?
If not, an apology would be appropriate ... |
Mereden |
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:23:00 - [ 5]
Um, I read it as macro miners and (macro) mission runners. I don't think CCP are likely to be slamming people for using the content they created  |
Miranda Duvall
Gallente
Saberick Interest and Development
Free Traders of EVE |
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:24:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: SillyWaif
Quote:
There are also the macro miners and mission runners, complex farmers and assorted rabble of this sort that causes general nuisance ...
I like running missions and I take offence if you compare/associate me(/our corp/other players who like that kind of gameplay) with Real Money Trading. It's annoying enough to see the spam for it in local, without this particular sentence in a Dev Blog...
I assume they mean to say macro miners and MACRO mission runners (yes they do exist!). |
GM Grimmi
 |
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:25:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: GM Grimmi on 08/04/2008 13:25:52
Hi,
Macro-mission runners is exactly what I mean. Sorry for the mix-up :)
|
Silverace
The Exploited.
Black Star Alliance |
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:30:00 - [ 8]
Education about rules, policy and the EULA can only achieve so much. Man is greedy, few things are stronger than the desire for gold, and the only thing that will have real effect is how much illegally purchased isk CCP removes daily. What is needed is more cleaver algorithms for finding transaction patterns and patterns in gameplay that may indicate isk farming. Quote:
we remove tens of billions of illegally purchased ISK every day.
This, is ultimately the only measure of real effect. |
Nisse Owned
The Order of Chivalry |
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:50:00 - [ 9]
Good seeing that you still care about the spam, unlike some people *caugh* sony *caugh* blizzard  |
Izo Azlion
Veto.
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:56:00 - [ 10]
Well said to be honest. There shouldnt be a market for this, if the GTC option is available.
|
Hamfast
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 13:58:00 - [ 11]
I am glad to hear you are taking steps to stop the RMT by not only punishing those you catch buying ISK, but by the mass banning of the farmers and macros that are collecting the ISK...
you are banning them aren't you? |
Kayscha |
Posted - 2008.04.08 14:07:00 - [ 12]
This just offers RMTers a safe loophole at slightly reduced profits and requiring an extra step, selling time cards for cash at a discount.
CCP gains in the short run by saturating this intermediate market with its 'currency', namely time cards.
Players might profit in the long run by effectively having reduced monthly costs for playing, possibly with the futher incentive to have more players willing to spend those reduced fees, increasing EVE player base.
Is this worth the trade-off? I don't know. What I object to is the fact that CCP will not state the issue as it clearly is.
Damn this board, BTW, had a really good answer typed and I just got a blank screen and all my hard work gone :( |
Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 14:11:00 - [ 13]
Edited by: Zetjur Jilnou on 08/04/2008 14:11:35 Originally by: Kayscha
This just offers RMTers a safe loophole at slightly reduced profits and requiring an extra step, selling time cards for cash at a discount.
CCP gains in the short run by saturating this intermediate market with its 'currency', namely time cards.
Players might profit in the long run by effectively having reduced monthly costs for playing, possibly with the futher incentive to have more players willing to spend those reduced fees, increasing EVE player base.
Is this worth the trade-off? I don't know. What I object to is the fact that CCP will not state the issue as it clearly is.
Damn this board, BTW, had a really good answer typed and I just got a blank screen and all my hard work gone :(
If you can't completely prevent RMT, what's so bad about having RMT in a way that stops most of the negative aspects - the farming, the hacking and so on? |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos |
Posted - 2008.04.08 14:11:00 - [ 14]
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 14:46:00 - [ 15]
Edited by: Akita T on 08/04/2008 14:46:14
This devblog's contents should become a "sticky" newspost on the login screen, a sticky in "New Players" and "General Discussions" too.
I can not believe how many times I've had to write this exact same thing that the blog says to some generic moron of the moment.
P.S. And yes, please do correct the KB and FAQ on the "illegality" of non-secure GTC trade. |
Belmarduk
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 14:48:00 - [ 16]
This is what I really love about Eve and CCP - Zero-tolerance politics against RMT !!!
The secure-system with ETC is really ingenious - It keeps the cash-flow controlled.
If other games had the same policy/system they would have much less trouble with RMT and ingame-economics...
Keep up the good work CCP !
Greetings Belmarduk
|
SillyWaif
Galactic Kingdom |
Posted - 2008.04.08 14:48:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: GM Grimmi
Edited by: GM Grimmi on 08/04/2008 13:25:52
Hi,
Macro-mission runners is exactly what I mean. Sorry for the mix-up :)
Cheers for the clarification! |
Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries |
Posted - 2008.04.08 14:55:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Kayscha
This just offers RMTers a safe loophole at slightly reduced profits and requiring an extra step, selling time cards for cash at a discount.
What loophole? Unless they can get those codes at a discount, they will run a loss. The time code is used when traded via the secure method. Trades made outside of the secure method are treated in the same way as illegal RMT. There is no loophole here that doesn't exist anywhere else. Some might argue that RMT sellers could arrange to buy GTC's from their clients at prices far above the market prices. However, this is no different than buying any in-game item at an obsurd price, and can be expected to be handled accordingly. |
Horace Friendly |
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:06:00 - [ 19]
if you want people to always use the secure method and not have an excuse not to, include an option to not apply the code toward your time right away
i mean, what if i want to buy a timecode with isk at a discount/whatever and resell it to someone who doesn't know how much it should cost? |
jbob2000
Gallente
Degenerate...
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:12:00 - [ 20]
I love how GM Grimmi thinks that people wont buy billions of isk with GTCs. Are you kidding? Half the titans out there were funded with GTCs. |
Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries |
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:14:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: jbob2000
I love how GM Grimmi thinks that people wont buy billions of isk with GTCs. Are you kidding? Half the titans out there were funded with GTCs.
Grimmi's point was not that people can't do that, but that it comes at a cost: there is a reason that GTC prices have dropped to 150 mil.  |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE |
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:21:00 - [ 22]
I am hoping that with subscription 2.0 the RMT trade will diminish even further |
Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162 |
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:27:00 - [ 23]
I'll take things like this seriously when the ISK channel and EVEMail spam cease.
There's no reason CCP can't stop it entirely with a mere bayesian filter on chat and EVE mail, but they seem to think it's too hard, so don't even try.
If Google can do it for all of Gmail without perceivable slowdown of mail delivery, surely CCP can do it for a tiny fraction of the number of accounts and messages that comprises TQ.
I'm tired of the excuses. Reporting sellers is a waste of my time, they'll be back on a new account in less time than it takes me to report them. |
Illusori |
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:33:00 - [ 24]
Quote:
...wallets will simply be put in the negative, making any form of market activity impossible, as well as preventing any actions that require ISK to be spent such as new clones or buying ship insurance.
Whilst this all sounds very good, what manner of appeals process is there for if someone has had this done to them and recieves no replies to petitions or attempts to find out why it has been done? It's all well and good to wave a big stick, but if you clobber someone who you shouldn't have, there needs to be a clearly advertised means to appeal the decision, and handled in a timely manner if you're basically making the game unplayable for them! |
xHalcyonx
Amarr
About To Die
Predatory Instincts |
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:33:00 - [ 25]
Must...Not...Resist...Urge...TO KILL FARMERS!  |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx |
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:53:00 - [ 26]
You mean we don't have enough of these topics on the forums as it is? Or is this an attempt to collect all the replies in one thread?
I personally would like to hear something about the rest of the graphics updates, the rest of the overview updates, the dev's thoughts on changes to the POS warfare (however preliminary), some status on lag reducing measures(!!!), etc.
We're not getting any younger here... |
Scilent Enigma
Minmatar
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc. |
Posted - 2008.04.08 15:57:00 - [ 27]
Personally, I would really like it if the MOTD had something in the lines of this devblog when there is nothing more important to announce. Having "Buying ISK for real money IS against the EULA and will be punished appropriately" would be a good way to raise awareness of these problems.
Cudos to CCP for adding additional "behind the scenes" tracking mechanisms to help the RMT-hunters with this. |
GM Guard
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 16:06:00 - [ 28]
Edited by: GM Guard on 08/04/2008 16:06:36 Originally by: Illusori
Quote:
...wallets will simply be put in the negative, making any form of market activity impossible, as well as preventing any actions that require ISK to be spent such as new clones or buying ship insurance.
Whilst this all sounds very good, what manner of appeals process is there for if someone has had this done to them and recieves no replies to petitions or attempts to find out why it has been done?
It's all well and good to wave a big stick, but if you clobber someone who you shouldn't have, there needs to be a clearly advertised means to appeal the decision, and handled in a timely manner if you're basically making the game unplayable for them!
That's a good question actually. Anyone who feels we have removed his ISK without reason is urged to file a petition so we can look into the matter. All petitions are looked into and replied to. Please note that intentionally unverifiable explanations will not result in us returning ISK, whereas true stories are usually easy to verify in our experience. In other words, please file a petition if you truly received the ISK legitimately but don't bother if you bought it. There are penalties for filing intentionally false petitions and if your ISK came from an ISK seller there is no chance of misleading us into returning it. |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Eclats de verre
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 16:08:00 - [ 29]
I have a question about buying ETC/GTCs...
I noticed the lack of french resellers, even if the sinclair site has a french version, half the labels are in german, I just can't catch a word of german...
Same for other countries of EU... Many english speaking sites that end all being from north america...
So, any plans on more local resellers or should we buy from the eve-online official shop?
Any resellers that sell GTCs in stores and not just online?
All this is not so important, but when I have newbies asking me about GTCs in my corp and searching for the best way to buy in france, I don't know what's the best to answer, and for those without a credit card, having some physical stores selling GTCs would help them greatly. |
Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.04.08 16:08:00 - [ 30]
Perhaps if CCP would provide us with some proof that they were addressing the ISK sales and macro problems in EVE, we could give you more credibility on this matter?
IE, how much ISK have you appropriated, how many accts have you banned. Just give us some concrete examples to show us that you are aware of the problem, have a plan to deal with it, have taken stops to deal with, and have measurable progress. |
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